Talk:Magic
My favorite part of this is how the very first sentence says that magic is natural forces used to override the laws of nature. Well then they aren't natural at all! Haha. Wolfdog: Narnia Wiki administrator 17:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC) *I don't think it needs to be deleted so much as edited. Lewis makes it very clear that there is good, natural magic at work in Narnia, and evil magic (usually used by humans to achieve their own ends) that only brings misery and corruption. I think Lucy's experience with the mirror and the spellbook in Voyage is a good example. --Puppetstrings 23:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Question, should we really have Olvin using a spell? I mean, Jadis had to use a wand to turn people to stone. If King Olvin could do it in a spell then that kinda negates what is said about humans and magic. How could Olvin done this and could other kings following do this? Personally, I think that is too powerful--and I feel it should be an item of power like Digory's Uncle Andrew's rings--not to suggest it is a "Ring of Power" but some item nonetheless. Also, since Bacchus is a Greek God, wouldn't one of the Merpeople or Sea People be considered magical as well? Triton or Poseidon--I know they are not canonical but Lucy did see a King of the Sea People and not to mention, Telmarines ruling Narnia felt Mermaids could lure sailors to their deaths by singing. Moran half valar (talk) 03:04, June 21, 2019 (UTC) Possibly. But since there is no direct mention of how Olvin turned the giant to stone, then it is open for debate. Storyseeker1 (talk) 19:11, June 21, 2019 (UTC) True it is open to debate, but are we to say that Archenland (and at this point then, Calormenes) both possessed mage classes? I mean, if Olvin could magically turn someone to stone via a spell, why can't King Lune? I mean I suppose the Nymphs tought Franks children magic and passed it on? I guess that is what we would have to go with. Also then, are some of the Tisrocs actually descended from Tash? Could they then cast magic? I would be interested on anyones thoughts about this. Moran half valar (talk) 21:53, June 21, 2019 (UTC) Well, we know for sure there are sorcerers in Narnia. No human ones that I'm aware of, but in a land of magic I believe it would be possible for some of them to learn. Another possibility is that maybe the giant wasn't "turned to stone" in any magical sort of way. It could have been a metaphor, meaning that after the giant was slain, it fell and its body became one with the earth, as in the earth grew around it, and the stone gradually formed around its carcass, becoming a mountain. Another possibility is that maybe Aslan turned it into a mountain. The Calormenes certainly believe that their Tisroc is descended from Tash, adding to their religious beliefs which they believe gives their Tisroc the indisputable right to rule. Personally, though, I don't believe any of them are in anyway related to Tash. Tash is basically the Calormene's name for the devil, so the idea that Satan would come to Narnia to mate with a human woman and have a kid, seems highly unlikely. Tash is meant to remain in his country where all the wicked go when they die, unless he is summoned by someone. Storyseeker1 (talk) 02:08, June 22, 2019 (UTC) I agree with the human sorcerer things. So you feel no humans on Narnia had any magic? I mean Archenland had the Hermit who could see visions--then there is Father Christmas and Olvin. Story, you initially said that you thought this was a spell. So it would appear that some humans have learned to use magic--but still Jadis had to use her Wand to achieve such power. I feel strongly that he had to do this with a device/item of some type--but the Aslan suggestion does seem plausible, but C.S. Lewis didn't write about Aslan using that. So given what we know about humans and their magic affinity, you are right that they probably could learn in Narnia such as Olvin or the Hermit in the Horse and His Boy--but to achieve such powerful magic, I would think him to have some type of device or item. While on the subject of magic, should Shift be added to the list? I mean he is a liar and deceiver, but it does say he is really old in the narration of the Last Battle. But he also states that the ape form is just a form--I tend to think this a lie, but given his age and no one knows of him--I have my doubts. What do you think? Moran half valar (talk) 03:29, June 22, 2019 (UTC) Well, as I said, there have been no specifically named human sorcerers. The hermit could see visions of the future, but there are theories that the hermit might have been Aslan in disguise, so who knows. Father Christmas I'm pretty sure is not human, as humans don't tend to live as long as he has, move between worlds, or deliver so many gifts in a night etc. I said that Olvin might have used magic. There's no exact proof that he did or didn't use any, so anything is up for debate. Jadis is not human. That was specificed both in The Magician's Nephew, and in the LWW, where the beavers said she was from Lilith, giants and the Jinn etc. Shift was confirmed to definitely be an ape, and as far as I know, the only magic he ever used was the magic of his own lies. Storyseeker1 (talk) 03:40, June 22, 2019 (UTC) Wel regarding Shift, he built the Stable which brought Tash into Narnia, and though he is a confirmed Ape, I thought he had some type of special power conferred on him from the stable...I mean it states he started looking more human, but that may have been because he dressed like one. The only thing though is that the narrator says Shift is so old and wrinkled that no one remembers where he came from. He then states that he is hundreds of years old. I don't know if this is true, but it seems to go with what the narration states about him. Makes me wonder how he has lived for hundreds of years. Maybe he took a silver apple from the Tree of Protection? I don't know, that is just a theory. Moran half valar (talk) 20:34, June 22, 2019 (UTC) Shift may have built the stable, but apparently Tash chose to come from there. Everything that was said about him in the book doesn't seem to stem from anything magical. As you said, the reason why he started looking more human could have come from the clothes he wore etc. Yes, Shift said he was hundreds of years old, but again, remember that Shift was a pathological liar, and apparently he said it because he tried to make everyone believe that he was actually human, and if anyone wondered why he looked like an ape, he said it was because he was "so very old: hundreds and hundreds of years old." Storyseeker1 (talk) 20:59, June 22, 2019 (UTC) So then the part where C.S. Lewis tells us in his narration about Shift's old appearance and how no one remembered him or where he came from doesn't mean anything? I thought that would at least attribute to the fact that he was old... but maybe you are right Story. I just thought that Shift's statement was reinforced by C.S. Lewis's description of him. Moran half valar (talk) 05:53, June 23, 2019 (UTC)